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 #editorchat rules

No 1. Observers welcome but #editorchat is for those who are, or those who work with, editors

No. 2. Stay on topic

No. 3. Courteous comments, please. (Thank you, sir. Ma’am.)

No. 4. Spammers will be electrocuted. (Your computer *is* wired, pal.)

Tip: TweetDeck has a filter feature at the bottom of each column. Select #editorchat as the text to exclude, unless you want in on the chat.

LydiaBreakfast And we’re live tweeps, let’s introduce ourselves.

milehighfool Tim Beyers, Motley Fool tech contributor and co-founder of this fine forum 🙂

LydiaBreakfast Lydia Dishman, freelance features writer and editor.

a2editor Hi, editorchat. Laura Cowan, editor/writer blogging at a2editor.wordpress.com.

IrisJumbe Hi, Iris Jumbe, Freelance Writer and Content Editor

kathleenotmm hi i’m kathleen a reporter/freelance writer

Colleenwritepr Colleen, I’m a freelance writer and I also do PR

writepudding Hi! I’m Liana, a content editor for an online media company. I’m also a freelance writer and journalist based in L.A

a2editor @LydiaBreakfast, @milehighfool. Hi. Not sure how long I can stay, but interested in fair pay topic

JMegonigal (let’s try this again!) Jordana Megonigal, editor for Upstate S.C. publishing house/business magazine

karasw Kara Williams, Colorado-based travel writer & blogger. Co-founder Travelingmamas.com. See http://www.karaswilliams.com.

littlebrownpen Nichole Robertson, Copy Director for German skin care brand, and freelance copywriter for a handful of brands/magazines

LydiaBreakfast First Q With free content available everywhere, aren’t we under more pressure than ever to establish a fair wage for writers?

JDEbberly J. D. Ebberly, North VA-based freelance features writer on blogging & new media

a2editor Yes, and how to do that? I was offered what came to $2/hr this wk from high-profile new media site. !!

milehighfool @LydiaBreakfast It sure seems like it. I know @TheMotleyFool we have an abundance of content from CAPS, a free community.

taoswriter Hi, Tania Casselle, freelance, business, travel, arts, design, etc. based in NM but mainly writing for US and UK.

Single_Shot Hi folks — Diane Mapes, freelance writer (national news sites), humor columnist for the Seattle P-I. Great topics tonight!

kenwheaton #editorchat Ken Wheaton, a.m.e., Advertising Age

JMegonigal That, and value should be determined – what is “free” work and what is paid for? As an editor, have to look at that bottom line

milehighfool @a2editor What was your response? Did you try to negotiate a better deal?

KakieF Kakie Fitzsimmons writer, blogger and children’s book author http://farmershatproductions.com

IrisJumbe @LydiaBreakfast Agreed abt fair wage but us editors and writers have to bring more to tbl to separate us from the hobbyists

a2editor @milehighfool There was apparently no negotiating this. I had to turn it down.

kenwheaton @LydiaBreakfast Between reg. staff and all the free content in our unique space, we don’t deal with many freelancers

writepudding @IrisJumbe I agree

JMegonigal @IrisJumbe @LydiaBreakfast Completely agree. What separates free work from paid? What is the value equation?

milehighfool @JMegonigal Curious: How do print editors determine value? Can you measure my contribution? Would make negotiating easier.

milehighfool @JMegonigal Curious: How do print editors determine value? Can you measure my contribution? Would make negotiating easier.

taoswriter Anyone who’s going to pay a ‘fair wage’ knows what that is, ballpark. The rest probably won’t anyway, Can’t really regulate it

milehighfool Reminder: Introduce us to you when you join. Who you are, where you work.

jkwill10 hello all conversating at #editorchat I’m a news guy getting into philanthropy-based journalism

JMegonigal @milehighfool I think it depends on a lot of things – length, time input, what’s needed, etc. We pay print but not web.

littlebrownpen There’s a fair amount of deflation taking place with rates. Recent grads and aspiring wages will help drive prices down further.

kenwheaton #editorchat We do pay freelancers, but tend not to negotiate

milehighfool @taoswriter Don’t you think that’s changing? There are some many Web tools now. You can price a Web story more easily, I think.

LydiaBreakfast Regulating is a tricky word, we don’t mean unionizing wages, but writers should be paid fairly

JMegonigal @milehighfool But for quality, ASSUME we have 2 pay, whatever it is.Otherwise, no leverage 2 dictate- it’s either print or dont.

jkwill10 #editorchat From print perspective, value is determined from budgets. You divide X by freelancers for the month some bumps for topic/quality

KakieF @kenwheaton What helps you determine how much you will pay a freelancer?

JMegonigal @LydiaBreakfast So what is fair? Is it regional? I know in S.C. freelance wages (avg) are low – we try to pay on the high end

kenwheaton #editorchat ‘fair’ might be hard to judge with so many newly unemployed flooding market and editors getting their budgets axed

milehighfool @JMegonigal and other editors: Are you getting pitches for free content? Feels like a tougher pitch now — you have more choice.

a2editor How about throwing out both what used to be fair and what is now avg. Probably telling.

LydiaBreakfast I’m mostly referring to offers of $3 per 500-750 word post for an online site

milehighfool @jkwill10 So all budget-driven. That true for all the print eds.? Ken? Jordana?

JMegonigal @milehighfool No pitches for free yet…still pitching for paid, but we work with a small, select pool of best local talent

travelinggal Hi, I’m Apryl Chapman Thomas, freelance writer and blogger located outside of Atlanta, Ga

littlebrownpen @LydiaBreakfast Those rates are laughable, and I advise all new writers who ask me for advice to avoid those rates.

taoswriter @LydiaBreakfast Absolutely;-) I think it’s my job to find ones that pay fairly and bypass the rest. The $10 articles=diff market

IrisJumbe @milehighfool joined Soc 4 Editors earlier this yr.Undergo training. it reassures clients they’re hiring a professional

kenwheaton @KakieF We pay ’em all the same on a per word basis based on number of words assigned by editor.

JMegonigal @LydiaBreakfast THAT’s just offensive.If it’s free, it’s free. But $3 is a slap in the face (I think!)That from my “writer”past.

writepudding W/ online media, a lot of it depends on SEO value of articles to draw hits + readers. If something is high SEO it could pay more

IrisJumbe @jkwill10 Hi, is “philanthropy-based journalism” writing for non-profs?

a2editor @JMegonigal, agreed. If I’m doing you a favor that’s one thing, but 3rdworld wages are insulting.

milehighfool @littlebrownpen Therein lies the problem. If those rates are laughable, what isn’t? Less than $1 a word?
jkwill10 We have a stable of local stringers that I know and trust (to an extent). So everyone gets paid (just not much)

littlebrownpen @milehighfool I think the rates have to be in line with potential revenue generation

jlcommunication Hello all. Sorry I’m late. I’m a freelance writer. Business writing pays the bills but I freelance newspaper/magazines smtimes

Single_Shot @milehighfool I wouldn’t toss 50 cents a word out of bed for eating crackers. But I’d prefer to snuggle up to $2 a word

milehighfool The net effect is freelancers have to take on more clients, right? Editors: Does this affect how you think of freelance talent?

littlebrownpen … and if after calculating that rate it is .3 a word, perhaps the article is not worth writing

IrisJumbe @milehighfool I think $1 is ideal but tough to get now. I’m freelance & ppl less wiling to outsource now. must be cost-efficient

JMegonigal We have a pool of 5-6 and each gets a feature/issue. Pay on high end of the local market. And pay per article, no word count.

milehighfool In other words: Do you care if a freelancer is writing for 3 or more clients besides you?

taoswriter @milehighfool Why do you think you can price a web story more easily? Just don’t understand quite what you mean?

littlebrownpen @milehighfool Most do. I retain clients as a marketing copywriter (which pays incredibly well), so I can take on other projects.

jlcommunication @taoswriter I think web copy is cheap because so many sites such as elance, craigs list is driving rates down.

JMegonigal @milehighfool Heck no. Unless I can afford to bring them on staff, I dont feel I have the right to dictate their source f living

milehighfool @taoswriter Google Analytics offers a lot of data about traffic, actions. If you can value that, you can price more easily.

littlebrownpen @jlcommunication Agree. And nubile writers eager for bylines.

milehighfool @jlcommunication Agreed. But do editors take these sites seriously? Would you buy an article from elance?

Single_Shot @littlebrownpen This seems a smart mix. Am trying to work up to this w/my freelance stuff. Let copywriting support journo habit.

littlebrownpen @taoswriter stats don’t lie. Google analytics tell you exactly how much traffic an article generated.

jlcommunication @littlebrownpen Or writers who don’t value their own skills (?)

IrisJumbe @milehighfool I’d be happy to hire a busy freelancer. speaks to their experience

kenwheaton @milehighfool As a writer and editor, I’d be nervous about tying my pay to page views, though my inner capitalist likes idea

littlebrownpen @jlcommunication exactly.

JMegonigal @milehighfool No.Need to TRUST my biggest writers. Elance is for small marketing gigs – brochures, websites. Not real journalism

jlcommunication It’s not the editors buying. It’s marketing/quick rich types bragging about outsourcing for cheap

milehighfool @kenwheaton Fair point. Some sites are doing this. Examiner.com, for one. Still, I think there’s intrinsic value to good writing

LydiaBreakfast @IrisJumbe Writers and reporters are their own brands; the good ones and the bad ones.

littlebrownpen @kenwheaton It’s not a bad model, but it gets a lot of bad blood due to start ups and craigslist scams promising revenue

milehighfool @JMegonigal (Slap!) That, my friend, is a digital high-five.

jlcommunication So many are looking to fill web content through blogs, internet pages, whatever. And there are people out there who will do it.

milehighfool RT @littlebrownpen @kenwheaton It’s not a bad model, but it gets a lot of bad blood due to start ups and craigslist scams

JMegonigal Again, it boils down to the value equation. Am I paying to fill space, or am I paying for quality, wellresearched articles?

Colleenwritepr I agree branding and your own voice extremely important with all the web based options and competition

kenwheaton @milehighfool Not totally analogous but Gawker WAS tying pay to page views, comments etc. But even they cut back on pay

taoswriter @JMegonigal You see, that’s nice, and worth money – regular reliable work and the writer saves time not having to pitch around

JMegonigal @milehighfool ?? for??

littlebrownpen @LydiaBreakfast It’s a great point. If you are your own brand, and have followers, readers, etc. you can drive your own traffic.

ScottHepburn @milehighfool Your tweet about #editorchat caught me eye. A regular thing? May have to tune in next time…

kenwheaton #editorchat Also helps sucking up to editors on Twitter! 🙂

milehighfool @JMegonigal Demanding quality content rather than any old elance scrap.

Colleenwritepr Yes, that always helps

delwilliams @littlebrownpen You may be correct on some but if no one knows the site exist then it is dependent on the writer to market it

milehighfool @ScottHepburn Yes, Scott. Anyone who is, or writes for, a professional editor, is welcome here on Wednesdays.

taoswriter @milehighfool Ah, now see where you were coming from. So saying that pay will be linked directly to stats?

LydiaBreakfast If editors are feeling the need to fill more pages for their publication, does that necessitate searching for free content?

milehighfool @taoswriter Part of it, sure. What about base pay for the quality a pro brings with a kicker for traffic, actions?

BobSchaller hello all. Bob Schaller. New media writer, former journalist, book author.

taoswriter @littlebrownpen Yes, understand that. Just didn’t know where MHF was coming from. I mainly write for print, some web adjunct

littlebrownpen @LydiaBreakfast I’d rather fill that space with a pretty picture

IrisJumbe @LydiaBreakfast is free content ever really original content?

jlcommunication @milehighfool But quality doesn’t always mean traffic and vice versa. Traffic is entirely different game

judywriter @BobSchaller Hi, sorry I’m late. I’m a freelance writer for print & web & author (1st book) for a major trade publisher.

jkwill10 @LydiaBreakfast no problem filling our pub. The paper keeps shrinking and newshole budgets are tight

delwilliams @milehighfool Too many online editors are looking for WAHM to just type out a bunch of stuff for cheap.The winner is the editor

kenwheaton @KakieF Jokingly I’d say bribery, but even a casual Twitter relationship separates a writer from just a random freelancer.

JMegonigal @LydiaBreakfast Sometimes. Esp at last minute. If ad sales are slack (and they are!) it’s typical to need last-day content

jlcommunication Although I have a couple of blogs and they only make money if they get traffic

milehighfool @jlcommunication That’s true. SEO plays a big role. But, as a Web writer, I’d like to think I can deliver both 🙂

JMegonigal @LydiaBreakfast At that point, free is easy and fast –can’t get a writer to do something in 12 hrs or less!

milehighfool @JMegonigal Interesting. Is that when a freelance relationship helps?

kenwheaton @KakieF Piece written by young woman in ad industry makes good points about social media relationships http://tinyurl.com/bltv8k

taoswriter @milehighfool That would be interesting. I wouldn’t mind bonuses for work that ends up online;-) but no work on commission only

delwilliams @IrisJumbe Yes, I think that too many were sold they had to do free content to get a byline and get a foot in the door.

JMegonigal @milehighfool That’s when syndicated, free content helps.

kenwheaton @LydiaBreakfast Filling more pages? Eight years ago we had 100-page books. Now, we have 28-page books!

littlebrownpen If a writer has a great relationship with editors and creative directors, they’ll deliver in a pinch. Been on both ends.

milehighfool @JMegonigal Fair point. Related: Does it ever make sense for a freelancer to create canned content to have for those times?

KakieF @kenwheaton Thanks for that. I look forward to reading it since as we speak I am seeking gainful employment in a MarComm role

milehighfool @kenwheaton Wow. But @LydiaBreakfast captures the point. How are you filling Web space?

JMegonigal @milehighfool Absolutely! If my freelancers have canned content relative to my mag that is ready and UNUSED? Score.

IrisJumbe @delwilliams I see ur point but I’ve seen many articles which tread a fine line btwn orginal & plagiarised.Cut, paste, synonyms

littlebrownpen @JMegonigal depending on your content needs, you can always turn to bloggers as well

jlcommunication @milehighfool I like that idea – canned content ready to go. Needs serious relationship with pub though.

judywriter Canned content meaning written ahead of time, not necessarily immediately timely?

milehighfool RT @JMegonigal @milehighfool WAY better than syndicated. I’ll even pay something for it. (Clicks favorite button.)

littlebrownpen @JMegonigal the good ones know their niches, have followers, etc. It’s a win-win.

kenwheaton @milehighfool @LydiaBreakfast I see. But staff reporters do that as well. And me! And unpaid bloggers

a2editor @judywriter That’s a good point. Depending on pub, canned content might not help if timely content needed.

jlcommunication @kenwheaton That of course was the suck up

ATLCheap RT @littlebrownpen if a writer has a great relationship with editors and creative directors, they’ll deliver in a pinch.

JMegonigal @judywriter Exactly.

milehighfool @judywriter Right. Not timely but tailored. Something my ed. could run quickly and confidently.

JMegonigal @jlcommunication Serious relationship needed. High level of trust on both sides, I would think. But instant score if done right.

judywriter @JMegonigal Has to be unused! I had a columnist who fed the same basic column to us & a web site. I rejected it & he rewrote.

kenwheaton @milehighfool @LydiaBreakfast But we cover an industry in which a lot of people love to blog for free. Communities and all

JDEbberly RT @littlebrownpen if a writer has a great relationship with editors and creative directors, they’ll deliver in a pinch.

IrisJumbe Canned content = big yes! For your portfolio. And you can always tweak to make it current when you need to publish it.

judywriter The pubs I’ve worked for rarely used canned stuff. Mainly because not that many writers work ahead! Always behind, OR clueless!

jlcommunication @JMegonigal But how much writing just sits and waits meaning waiting to be paid

jkwill10 Bye all. Gotta leave #editorchat early 2nite. I’m still hyping the new gig (philanthropy-based local newspaper) http://bit.ly/18nL0R

milehighfool Back to the tension at hand. More free content means more choice for eds. means greater need to differentiate as writers. Yes?

KakieF #editorchat so have editors ever have bloggers who submitted their own content that was published on their blog in the past?

littlebrownpen @kenwheaton A lot of bloggers have visions of sponsorship dancing in their heads. This is motivating enough to work for free.

judywriter @jlcommunication I think editors still have a challenge finding good writers, reliable, accurate, ethical. Those prevail.

BobSchaller I admire the passion for writing. But writing/working for free? Brutal. I can’t afford to blog. If that changes, I’d try it

Colleenwritepr @milehighfool more choices means we have to constantly keep looking for the newest angle for our stories to be in demand

jlcommunication I run a sports blog and I am constantly contacted for free content. Usually w/promise of fame and fortune

milehighfool @littlebrownpen Not sure I buy it. If you’re going for sponsorship, why not write for a blog network? Or a news daily

KakieF Clarify: #editorchat so have editors ever have bloggers who submitted their own content that was published on their own blog in the past?

Single_Shot @milehighfool Am curious how writing/selling “canned copy” can help differentiate someone as a good writer. Am I being elitist?

littlebrownpen @jlcommunication Yep. It’s that fame and fortune thing again, huh?

littlebrownpen @milehighfool Honestly, I don’t think they know how.

judywriter But getting in the door, no matter how good you are, is the challenge. Once you’re in, you’re golden.

kenwheaton @littlebrownpen Most of ours are making better-than-journalism pay in ad agencies/digital agencies

a2editor Gotta head out early tonight. Nice to see/meet everyone. Same time next wk?

littlebrownpen @milehighfool Ad agency pay is mad money. Trust me. 😉

milehighfool @Single_Shot No. And I don’t think it can. Unique copy sells but if you’ve got the copy and want to help an editor? Maybe.

kenwheaton @KakieF We’re not crazy about repurposed blogs, though since we don’t pay them

taoswriter @milehighfool Yes, reliably researched, well-reported, lively writing, voice and style to fit a specific mag’s readership.

alyiceedrich Jumping in here. I’ve been known to use free content to fill space if it came from an “expert” but rarely from directories.

writepudding @judywriter This is true – that’s always the hard part

kenwheaton @kakief @littlebrownpen Though it’d be different for general market bloggers/pubs, I’d bet

judywriter @kenwheaton Yes, I got one of your 28-pg books today, and last week. Discouraging, isn’t it

KakieF @kenwheaton #editorchat Can you expand on that just a bit. I know it is a challenge in 140 characters or lest, but lets hear it

Single_Shot @milehighfool I’ve definitely delivered in a pinch. But never pulled some old musty unsold thing out of a trunk

milehighfool @alyiceedrich Makes sense. Are you also working with freelancers?

BobSchaller I wrote a story on deadline Friday night about Buff plane crash to localize. But I’m with you, Singleshot, never dusted one

milehighfool @taoswriter This really is the formula and can’t be matched by free content. Can it?

KakieF @kenwheaton #editorchat let’s say someone has a great parenting lifestyle type article that was posted a year ago, does that mean forget it

judywriter I would not agree to free content, either as a writer or an editor. You get what you pay for (usually).

littlebrownpen @kenwheaton agree. It’s incredibly hard to break in. There has to be a better way to connect writers and editors.

JMegonigal @jlcommunication That’s up to writer. It’s theirs until it’s bought and paid for – they determine how much “arsenal” to keep.

BobSchaller Good for you Judy. Well said.

KakieF @kenwheaton #editorchat Or rework it a little so it isn’t exactly the same but gets the same message across

kenwheaton @KakieF I think a lot of gen market writers looking to sell writing, buy food. Ad market writers happy for publicity for company

jlcommunication I have contributed free articles to very large blogs (copyblogger) in exchange for linkback to my copywriting/marketing blog
JDEbberly @littlebrownpen We can better connect writer & editors by blogging and thru Twitter.

JMegonigal @Single_Shot Not differentiate. Build relationship when editor is in a bad, sales-induced pinch.

LydiaBreakfast Do editors see a difference between the content they get from a professional writer than that from a blogger, or another source

judywriter @littlebrownpen It’s still who you know or who sends you. Even on here, the connections really help, even brand new ones!!

milehighfool @judywriter Agreed. Free content is filler, almost never serves the read

mteditor Starting an economy advice piece on Biz page using free content from various sources (SBA, Chamber etc.) We’ll see how it goes

littlebrownpen @jlcommunication I’ve done the same. Networking can sometimes trump pay

BeckyDMBR @KakieF Not forget but definitely rework &/or update.

KakieF @jlcommunication #editorchat I have done that as well

JMegonigal @Single_Shot Being the “prepared” to save the day differentiates you. I’ll come back again + again bc I know ur on top of it.

kenwheaton @KakieF #editorchat Exactly. Rework it some. Update it. (Likely cut it to fit!). But if audiences don’t overlap, I see no issues.

BobSchaller I don’t see a ton of research in the blog links I am sent. Most a rant or personal experience. Not much well written.Some r tho

KakieF @BeckyDMBR #editorchat Thank you very much

milehighfool @judywriter Thus Twitter is a critical tool for writers. Do you ever imagine hiring a writer found via Twitter?

writepudding I’ve met many amazing writers/editors via Twitter, wish it was around when I was in school, that would have made my life

littlebrownpen @JMegonigal There are writers who thrive on being able to save the day. It’s thrilling and a challenge

BobSchaller I mean, I’ll have a few exploratory interviews for a feature down the line, but that’s not a canned or something to be repubbed

milehighfool @mteditor Hi Bob. Thanks for dropping in. Tjhis your first free content experiment at the paper

judywriter @LydiaBreakfast I think everybody’s a little confused. The rules/lines for bloggers for editors are still pretty murky.

Single_Shot @JMegonigal Yes, it’s all about relationships w/editors (and sources/experts, etc) so you can answer those emergency calls

BeckyDMBR @KakieF You bet. (Still trying to figure out this chat thing. 🙂

JMegonigal @LydiaBreakfast Absolutely. Build your biggest content with your best writers. Then budget down from there. Never cut the top.

taoswriter I’m sorry, new to this, am I supposed to add #editorchat even if replying within the Tweetchat box? BobSchaller There’s a harsh reality that the numbers don’t support that everyone who wants to be a writer can make a living at it

littlebrownpen @milehighfool Absolutely. It breaks down barriers, and brevity (140 characters) either reveals wit or exposes a lack of it.

mteditor Non-news source advice offers at leat some hope amid the AP gloom. Have to guard against promos, useless fluff

KakieF @kenwheaton #editorchat so you are saying is first, we get our foot in the door, which isn’t always easy (bribery or relationship builds)

KBordessa @taoswriter Nice to see a familiar name! I’m new, too, but I think it auto adds.

JMegonigal @milehighfool I’d hire someone I met on Twitter, if they fit what I need(local, good writer, etc) Twitter just jumpstarts convo

littlebrownpen @BobSchaller I see a difference: Passive voice. Adverb abuse. Exclamation points

jlcommunication Tradeout works because value of lead for a white paper way out trumps cost of time writing blog post

IrisJumbe @milehighfool I’ve gotten two projects in the month or so I’ve been on twitter. It’s become crucial to how I work

kenwheaton @BobSchaller Right. Lot of our blog sections contain opinion, analysis, rants. (But researched stuff too). Readers like it

BeckyDMBR @milehighfool I’ve gotten two jobs through Twitter.

BobSchaller Right Little. And that’s just the beginning. Even if I WANTED to read all the blogs sent me each day, I could get to maybe

Colleenwritepr Twitter has helped my writing and my pr work

writepudding @BeckyDMBR That is so encouraging to here – were you approached?

BobSchaller More power to you, Ken. Research takes time and work, something I get paid for. Rants take less, and many are poorly written

littlebrownpen Blogger: It was deliciously decadent and I had never even considered trying it before! Writer: The sushi was fantastic

milehighfool @mteditor AP gloom? Meaning the news? Or what it costs to keep the wire?

judywriter @Colleenwritepr People who tweet intelligently are followed & there’s already a receptivity.

BeckyDMBR @writepudding I just answered call-out tweets. Helped that I knew someone they knew, tho not crucial.

KBordessa @milehighfool Thanks! You mean beyond meeting deadline with great copy? 😉

mteditor @kenwheaton Any legal problems with bloggers vs. unregulated forums. Corporate is nervous about outside bloggers

milehighfool @littlebrownpen Perfect! (Clicks favorite.)

Colleenwritepr @judywriter it’s exciting as a writer to connect and learn from all of you and others

JMegonigal Well tweeps I have to run. Much work to be done within the next 2 hours. Or passing out. Not sure which.

kenwheaton @BobSchaller Right. That’s part of the reason we don’t pay bloggers (or charge for it).

KakieF @writepudding I caught that and laughed at the irony of writing about writing and editing. LOL

BeckyDMBR @littlebrownpen Good point re: brevity & wit. 🙂

milehighfool @judywriter I’d also argue, as @littlebrownpen does, that it makes you a better writer.

BobSchaller “Or charge for it.” Hysterical

writepudding @BeckyDMBR Interesting. I’ll keep this in mind

JMegonigal Scrap that have an idea/question: There are liability issues with outside bloggers/syndicated content. Anyone else face this?

Single_Shot @littlebrownpen Hemingway: The sushi was fine. ; )

kenwheaton @mteditor All our bloggers go through editor. We’re not as wild and crazy as all that. Moderate comments too

judywriter @milehighfool Yes! Definitely makes you a better writer!

milehighfool @mteditor Re: Legal — Fool contributors have to sign strict disclosure and usage policies.

BobSchaller Good for you moderating comments. Papers are starting to understand that. Not everyone is sold on anarchy as interaction model

 

writepudding @KakieF LOL. It was quite ironic. I think I was thinking about my dreadful drive home in L.A traffic instead of spelling.

judywriter @Colleenwritepr I “eavestweeted” the other day on a convo between a literary agent & others about inquiries, right & wrongs.

milehighfool @mteditor But I;ve also written for the Fool for 5 yrs and I know of only 1 incident. Seems to work well

jlcommunication With my sports blog, I write to my audience. They want over the top obsessive fan. I sell ads. Makes me professional dsn’t it?

JMegonigal As an editor/publisher, Im responsible for everything that goes in. Worry that blogs/free content don’t watch the lines as much?

taoswriter @milehighfool I don’t know, because I don’t see what’s the norm in ‘free content’. Seems to be a wide range.

mteditor Our story-response forums are out of control — too much time refereeing the bad actors.

judywriter @milehighfool I had to sign all of that disclosure/rights legal stuff but it’s the price of admission for a lot of good pubs.

xybrewer @jmegonigal Actually, yeah, I’m gonna have the same question. My agreement with one editor doesn’t say a word

Colleenwritepr @kenwheaton Ken, great insights, love ad age read it for my PR stuff looking forward to Social Media article

JMegonigal Maybe a question for another #editorchat (re:liability issues in using outside bloggers/writers

BobSchaller Judy, I’ve referred three friends who asked to my agent. They are all former friends. Tough business. Thick-skin required 🙂

jlcommunication @JMegonigal Yes, and bloggers don’t have access/press pass so much is commentary on others reporting

JMegonigal @milehighfool Sell it. Make some money. Then can it and send it to me. 🙂

BobSchaller That being said, the worst thing a writer can do is talk about how their friends and family love it and say it’s publishable.SO?

taoswriter @milehighfool But there are tons of pro writers out there who can report, have track record, etc. so we must still differentiate

BeckyDMBR @jlcommunication Press credentials changing for bloggers. Some

milehighfool @judywriter What?!? Get me the number for Bob’s agent. I can sell it 🙂

BobSchaller AOL’s sports does that JL, just rants ripping off four or five graphs from AP. I cancelled my AOL over it.

JMegonigal @jlcommunication Which makes it an even bigger liability issue – 2nd and 3rdhand info is DANGEROUS. and expensive

judywriter @BobSchaller Oh dear! I have only referred 2 ppl to my agent & neither has followed up. I’m relieved

jlcommunication @JMegonigal Yep. But when I read a blog, I know what I’m reading. When I read WaPo, I expect more

MudslideMama @JMegonigal #editorchat Are you referring to slander? Or the anarchy of comments/forums for readers/users?

ATLCheap @JMegonigal When name=brand, bloggers do watch lines.

BobSchaller I have nine more books under contract. That’ll be 50. That’s more than enough. Then I’ll settle in academia and do univ. press

IrisJumbe @Colleenwritepr Hi Colleen, wht doesn’t seem right? Getting work thru twitter? I’m not sure I follow

milehighfool Back to the topic at hand. Do editors trust pro writers more than bloggers? Should they? or is it 10% about the content?

BobSchaller No money, but nice hardcover editions.And very little pressure. More thinking, less writing for me as I hit the academic pasture

KakieF So if a writer has content, you put it in your publication, do you give the writer permission to use again ? Or not

Single_Shot @JMegonigal I’ve had bloggers pick up my reported stories & riff on them to the point that they’re completely inaccurate. Grr.

Colleenwritepr @IrisJumbe Sorry, hit the wrong return button. Tweeves dropping. I don’t know if it’s tweegal, maybe why not

MudslideMama @milehighfool #editorchat Related: If a blogger “breaks” a story w/vid cam and a post, does it count to MSM?

KBordessa @KakieF That depends on the publication and your contract.

BobSchaller Usually Kakie, u sign off on the paper/mag whatever having rights. That’s for a lot of legal reasons, but for selling it/archive

alyiceedrich @milehighfool Suppose it depends on topic/content track record. Some bloggers act professionally, others don’t

BobSchaller My new contract for a Web gig ($200/story better paying than anything I had in papers) is 15 pages long. Unreal.

JMegonigal @milehighfool Always trust pros more than bloggers. Better grasp of style. More research. Fewer liability issues. Better quality

littlebrownpen @milehighfool Pro writers understand the rules of the game better, but there are some bloggers who can write.

JMegonigal @milehighfool It’s 100% about the content. Or should be

IrisJumbe @Colleenwritepr still a little confused abt why legality would come into it.I’m in Shanghai, projects have been local.

BobSchaller Still a pittance compared to what I get from the mags and stuff, but nice for little work.But yes, they own it all in perpetuity

jlcommunication @milehighfool I think a professional can switch between blog style and print. Prof writer takes that to the blog. Am dsnt

alyiceedrich @milehighfool Yes. I work with freelancers. Small paying online pub though and I do not take “all rights”.

ATLCheap @milehighfool pro writers & bloggers can be one in the same

jlcommunication @Single_Shot Which is wrong. Very wrong

taoswriter @jlcommunication Exactly. Blogs are great for democracy, hearing many voices, but “due diligence” varies.

MudslideMama @milehighfool #editorchat MSM = Mainstream Media.

writepudding @jlcommunication I agree with this – every writer should have a blog in my opinion

milehighfool @jlcommunication Good point. There are plenty of pro writers who do both. @footnoted, for example

Colleenwritepr @IrisJumbe sorry, tired tonight and just joking about another tweet accidentally replied to yours. Sorry for confusion.

taoswriter @ATLCheap Absolutely. I know you’re a pro! Lots of journos have own blogs, don’t they? Interesting, that they seek that outlet’

KakieF @JMegonigal @KBordessa @BobSchaller Thanks for sharing that, I know people do it differently, just wondering in general

xybrewer @jmegonigal so how do writers who are blogging distinguish themselves as professional writers than “your average bear” bloggers?

BobSchaller Haha 🙂 Seriously, I’d have a hard time signing over rights for a freelance gig that paid less. Once it’s online, it’s gone

judywriter @jlcommunication Totally agree w/ you that prof writers take to the blog, amateurs don’t. (But I’m a pro so I’m prejudiced!)

milehighfool @MudslideMama Oh sure. They source bloggers constantly. So there’s no real difference then, or shouldn’t be

Single_Shot @jlcommunication But it happens all the time. It’s maddening, too, when I take great pains in getting the info/inferences right.

Alysan If you’re a freelance writer lots of great info at #editorchat Thanks to @irisjumbe for the heads

MudslideMama @milehighfool #editorchat I think it represents the blurring of the lines, along w/less and less print, more online. Harder to differentiate

KakieF @xybrewer If the content is meaninful and speaks to the audience authentically, isn’t that what is important

AmySueNathan @writepudding I wonder about writers who blog — but who don’t ever mention their book or their writing. Strange to me

bakercom1 @ATLCheap I agree. I’m both a freelance journalist and a blogger. A lot of us are these days!

judywriter @Single_Shot It’s also frustrating when you realize that a lot of ppl don’t recognize well-researched pieces vs not.

BobSchaller I don’t want to blog for the sake of just doing it. A club with 50 million plus to me brings little cache.

littlebrownpen @MudslideMama In my case the lines are blurred, but I make it obvious on my blog. Most of my writer friends also blog

BobSchaller I’m a fan, and reader, of good writing, not just a lot of writing. The blogs I’ve seen not media-supported haven’t impressed

KBordessa @littlebrownpen @milehighfool Some pro writers blog, too, but I think generally the track record of published pros is of value

judywriter @AmySueNathan I’m one of those. My blog is separate from writing, it’s just for me. No agenda, no selling

AmySueNathan @BobSchaller A blog can’t hurt, imo. I am a freelance writer and editor – my editors have always liked it

Single_Shot @BobSchaller I sell all right to some stuff, but the $$/platform (nat’l) have to be worth it. I can always rework it if need be.

KakieF @AmySueNathan Curious to know why that is strange to you?

writepudding @BobSchaller True, but in an age of social media, even as a writer myself, I want to connect with writers I read and admire.

BobSchaller And that’s your case, Amy. More power to you. I couldn’t justify putting time into something, and doing it well, for no pay

Colleenwritepr @BobSchaller I agree I’m not impressed by most blogs so what gives a professional writer a better edge

littlebrownpen @AmySueNathan It’s odd to me too. My editors read my blog and it’s resulted in more jobs. I blog for fun, but it keeps me sharp.

BobSchaller And that’s nice, Writepudding, but I’m not looking for that

denyseduhaime @MudslideMama I went in to see how it was tonight #lost and it is too serid for me –LOL

judywriter I haven’t volunteered to do a prof. blog again (haven’t done 1 for 2 years) until I finish my book

milehighfool @AmySueNathan My editors also like my non-Foolish writing. This forum, for example. I’ll get one of them here someday 🙂

writepudding It’s so disappointing when I find a writer that I really like in print, but they have no online presence

marciamarcia @milehighfool Joining in tonight for the first time. Delighted to see conversation on issues I deal with each day

BobSchaller Maybe their goal, WriteP,is not to connect with hundreds of thousands of readers. Maybe they like writing, and their family,more

KakieF @xybrewer For me, if blogging is a way to engage their audience, audience doesn’t always want to hear how great you

Single_Shot @judywriter Sometimes, the bloggers don’t even LINK to my original story. They summarize, misquote, riff and wreak. Double grr.

courtneyramirez My writing blog is stuck in an odd spot #editorchat I feel like I need to revamp it for a profess. image but have little time to blog 4 self

MudslideMama #writepudding #editorchat That’ll change, just as bloggers indeed now get media passes and recognition of value added to public discussions.

BobSchaller I’d much more respect the blogger who shuts it down or posts occasionally than the one who has to rant every day

jlcommunication @Single_Shot They twist yr facts? ive built pieces arnd others reporting but only 4 basic facts & sourced. Post is commentary

KakieF @xybrewer So I think there needs to be some balance. Interactive is 2 way communication

writepudding @BobSchaller That’s great too – but they can do both can’t they? Not saying they should blog to connect, but to have a presence

judywriter @Single_Shot Bloggers are all over the map. Some outright steal (as you know) & others are ethical, knowledgeable & generous

marciamarcia Every writer I know has these issues

littlebrownpen @Single_Shot Copying is rampant. Blogs and elsewhere on the web. I’ve had copy lifted (from a shop) directly by multiple people.

jlcommunication @Single_Shot Let them know. I’ve written nasty letters to sites stealing my blog content

milehighfool @BobSchaller Or the one who remains topical and consistent. Shotgun blogs (i.e., content splayed nonsensically) are awful.

writepudding And I completely agree with a blog keeping you “sharp.” It really does

BobSchaller I love reporters having blogs. And media personalities. A lot of the other stuff is PR or micro-causal. But again, to each…

taoswriter @writepudding Good name! When you can’t find online content of theirs to read? Or no website, social media presence to connect

 @AmySueNathan Editorial copy of any kind is about the reader, not the author, IMHO.

KakieF RT @AmySueNathan Many bloggers forget that blogs are about the readers – not the writer.

BobSchaller Most writers, especially the successful ones, have a big online presence but do not blog. Good PR without the interaction commit

bakercom1 @writepudding Journalists often use blogging to build their own brand. With pubs disappearing, personal brand is crucial

milehighfool @BobSchaller They micro-blog. On Twitter

littlebrownpen @AmySueNathan Yep. And you know they aren’t the bloggers crying over a changed headline

littlebrownpen @AmySueNathan Yep. And you know they aren’t the bloggers crying over a changed headline

ebrenner I plan on starting a blog this year: to build my brand as a language expert and to get my name out there

JDEbberly @BobSchaller I REALLY agree w/you that reporters and writers should blog

writepudding @bakercom1 I completely agree – it’s important, at least to me #editorchat -9:25 PM Feb 18th, 2009

AmySueNathan @judywriter Absolutely – and online many forget about the readers imo. If one blogs enough, it’s ok now and then.

marciamarcia After writing books plenty of opportunities to blog, but skills very different. I’m not a fast writer. Tweeting helps hone tho

BobSchaller It’s just funny that since everyone can blog/’publish’ that they think they can tell everyone else how to do it, rules, etc

milehighfool Re: blogs stealing content and other such issues. Editors, do you negotiate rights?

littlebrownpen Also, blogging isn’t about writing as much as about community building. “Write it and they will come” does not apply

ebrenner You really do have to offer something to your readers, but you have to stay interested too. That’s key

milehighfool And, conversely, writers: Do you ask for certain rights before signing

Single_Shot @jlcommunication Yes, they twist & warp & leave out important nuances. They omit facts then take me to task for doing the same.

ebrenner re: blog stealing content. My day job releases the lawyers on splogs & content stealers

sooutdoors I write 7 outdoor blogs related to Southern Ontario outdoor activities as well as several print publications

anti9to5guide Milehighfool, I ask for rights, but good luck getting what we want from our web clients these days. Sadly
AmySueNathan @littlebrownpen It’s the whole tribe-building thing. Websites differ from blogs, purely info. Blogs are conversations

Single_Shot @littlebrownpen I’ve had people pick up my stuff & copy it, 2. That’s not nearly as maddening as having them change the story.

MudslideMama @milehighfool #editorchat Some sites maintain rights (or just online rights) for a certain amount of time, then ownership reverts to writer.

littlebrownpen @milehighfool Some contracts are trickier than others, but usually rights aren’t an issue (at least in my world

marciamarcia @milehighfool Yes, I always ask for certain rights before signing. Varies with publication (and topic) for me

Single_Shot @milehighfool Shutgun blogs — never knew what those things were called! Thanks for the great word

jlcommunication @Single_Shot And therin lies the problem with blogs. You get good and bad. Some are trained writers, other’s are guy w/laptop

judywriter @milehighfool Most writers don’t have much choice. If they want to write for pubs, they sign on the dotted line

ebrenner ClickZ’s policy is rights revert to columnist after a period. I think that’s fair.

jennipps @jlcommunication Sometimes it seems like far too many are of the “guy w/laptop” variety. #editorchat -9:29 PM Feb 18th, 2009

karenshaydunn author, blogger & new freelance writer writing about life & living

 

BobSchaller I do Judy. And I sign, sign, sigh. I’d sign it in blood. I love to write for a living 🙂

Single_Shot @anti9to5guide Hey anti! They’re asking about contracts, I think. Your favorite topic

MudslideMama @jlcommunication #editorchat Same argument can be made with some print outlets too. 🙂 The Sun comes to mind

BobSchaller PMGNIC, you should jump in. Some of the best comments tonight were from an ad-writing editor

judywriter @milehighfool As an editor, I’ve never negotiated rights. Our editorial policy is our editorial policy. Sign or not

] AmySueNathan @ebrenner @jlcomminication Me too. Not all bloggers are writers but they don’t know that. It blurs the lines.

BobSchaller It would’ve been funny, but once it was ‘out there’ it couldn’t be brought back in. My editor was like, “Not in manual

ebrenner @jlcommunication: it is mostly. Though we’re always fighting theft. We’re lucky we’re part of a legal publisher. Lawyers aplenty

Single_Shot @judywriter @milehighfool Aren’t all contracts negotiable? Aren’t they just a jumping off point?

jlcommunication @jennipps That’s because everyone thinks they need a blog today. The good ones rise to the top. The majority aren’t very good.

BobSchaller I love reading stuff online. I just think the devaluation of good writing (and reporting) tenets is a dangerous direction

JDEbberly @karenshaydunn I think they should blog becuase I like to enjoy different kinds of writing styles

bakercom1 oops, forgot my intro too: Pam Baker, veteran freelance journalist, author of 6 books, blogger and analyst

BobSchaller And JL, those will fade in time. It takes time to do something like that well. There aren’t enough readers for 50 mil blogs

AmySueNathan @jennipps @jlcommunication I have a writing blog I update throughout the week. I have online clms that run 4x/wk or 1x/mo

anti9to5guide @Single_Shot I would say it’s all negotiable. Get what rights you can, eh?

jennipps Jen, f/l writer in Oklahoma. Latest article is now up at http://tinyurl.com/b66hoc

sooutdoors Blogs can be seen at http://www.sooutdoors.ca I’m also past President of the Outdoor Writers of Canada

BobSchaller @bakercom1 Blogging, and Tweeting, can be great for brand building

judywriter @Single_Shot By and large, I’ve found that few contracts are negotiable. But with some, some things are unenforced

KakieF I also write an award winning childrens book series that educates kids about sports and outdoors using multicultural characters

anti9to5guide I whore blog re freelancing and whore my books @ http://www.anti9to5guide.com & blog about balance (despite having none) at nwjobs.com

JDEbberly I blog and tweet about blogging and New Media. I’ll def. keep U up to date: http://twitter.com/JDEbberly

KakieF The site for the books is http://farmershatproductions.com and the series is called “Bur Bur and Friends

Single_Shot @judywriter I’ve been able to negotiate a lot of contracts. Maybe I’ve just been lucky — or pushy?

karenshaydunn Karen Dunn. blogger, author, new freelance writer. http://karenkaydunn.blogspot.com/.

littlebrownpen I currently live in Paris and ramble daily here: http://littlebrownpen.blogspot.com/

BobSchaller @ebrenner I tell students in ADV, PR, JOUR and EMC majors here that to build their network/brand, social media is a must

jlcommunication @bakercom1 Agreed. Blogging based on ad model not good. For brand awareness and attract readers/clients/etc. Excellent

judywriter @Single_Shot Cool! You should hire yourself out — others could use your services! LOL

ngle_Shot @unearthingasia Just being silly, Unearethling. I sometimes feel like the lone Luddite in a sea of tech-savvy youngins.

alyiceedrich @milehighfool Intro: Editor of http://www.thedabblingmum.com, freelance writer for small biz, blogger and aspiring artist

ebrenner @BobSchaller. It is. We talk about it a lot on ClickZ and have some panels on it at an upcoming NY search conference.
milehighfool @stephauteri Our apologies. The good news: editorchat.wordpress.com is open 24/7

bakercom1 @BobSchaller other writers guest blog frequently; that helps us all with branding w/out killing any one of us.

Single_Shot @judywriter I learned it all from Anti9to5Guide. She’s the one who said, Hey what’s the harm in asking?

KakieF And I am 10 tweets from 1800!! http:/burburandfriendsblog.com #editorchat would be open to feedback

BobSchaller @bakercom1 That’s a reasonable agreement. Probably forces others to bring their A-Writing game, too

MaryWWalters I am freelance writer/editor for 15++ yrs, but deal with business/acad clients only. Other writing too iffy as far as pay.

unearthingasia @Single_Shot: 😀 did I just made it so obvious that I’ve only just stumbled upon #editorchat ? catching up now.. look forward to nxt week

JDEbberly @travelsavvymom This is where editors and writers get together and have excellent discussions

KakieF This has been a thought provoking conversation. Thanks to everyone for the great dialogue

milehighfool Tim Beyers, Motley Fool tech contributor, analyst for Motley Fool Rule Breakers: http://twurl.nl/uy3dg3

ebrenner I’m about to turn into a pumpkin myself. G’nite all, and chat with you next week (now that I’ve set a reminder!)

bakercom1 @BobSchaller want to see how team of writers are doing this single blog idea? See NicheKnot http://nicheknot.typepad.com/

jlcommunication No pitch but I have a couple of ideas for stories but don’t know where to pitch. Any advice would be great. Thanks all

writepudding Freelance writer + full-time editor, I write mainly online/concentrating on print this year! http://www.writepudding.com

MaryWWalters Pub. 3 books, former ed/in/chief at pub co. website, several blogs, including writing tips for bloggers http://tr.im/gyc7

gipson @littlebrownpen totally agree on the community building front- engagement with your base is key

alyiceedrich Writers: search Twitter for #editorchat to get in on multi-tweet discussions, weekly, about writing for pay. 1st visit tonight. Interesting

LydiaBreakfast I’ve been in the background but thanks for coming lydia dishman freelance reporter and features writer

writepudding I really enjoyed the exchange of ideas and comments from everyone, it was very insightful

JDEbberly @JenniferNobile You’re in for a real treat next Wed. night!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Written by LydiaBreakfast

February 19, 2009 at 2:57 am

Posted in Uncategorized

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